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The Millennial Reign of Christ

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Andy_uk		#1 Posted : Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:31:44 AM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 10/19/2009 Posts: 246 Location: Gloucester UK Thanks: 170 times Was thanked: 181 time(s) in 122 post(s)		This is a doctrine that isn't much talked about in the churches I've attended. I'd be interested in anyone's views. For example who will be the people who will be reigned over, how does this fit in with doctrines of the rapture ? I know there are many different theological views out there, it would be interesting to look at some of the scriptures that they are based on. What did the early church believe ? The clearer I can see Jesus, the more confident I get.
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QuantumGreg		#2 Posted : Monday, January 18, 2010 12:52:07 PM
Rank: Administration Medals: Joined: 4/13/2009 Posts: 678 Location: Bluff City, TN Thanks: 64 times Was thanked: 322 time(s) in 180 post(s)		Hey Andy_uk, I love the topic of prophecy. Like many other Christians, I have spent much of my study time considering the millennium of Revelation 20 specifically, and prophecy in general. Since prophecy interpretation probably divides God's people more than anything else, I'm always reluctant to talk about it openly. It tends to divide if we do not do it with open minds. Of course, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible, per se. The idea is there, of course, but not the word. There are 3 main camps of millennialism, as I'm sure you know. Post Millennialism, Amillennialism and Pre-Millennialism. Seems like the pop culture Christianity favors the Pre version. Scholarly history, however, favors the Post version. And the A version is not nearly as popular as the other 2. For those not knowing what I'm talking about: - Millennialism is just a word referring to the prophecy of the 1000 years in Revelation 20. - Post Millennialism is a belief that Jesus' so-called Second Coming will occur after (post) the 1000 years. - Amillennialism is a belief that Jesus' so-called Second Coming will occur at any time because the 1000 years is not a representation of any real time (thus, the a- prefix). - Pre Millennialism is a belief that Jesus' so-called Second Coming will occur before (pre-) the 1000 years. At one time or another I've been a student and adherer to each, oftentimes for many years, until I saw something in scripture that kept changing my position. So, the concern is the hermeneutic (interpretive framework & rules) one uses to look at prophecy. For instance, reading the passage about the 1000 years of Revelation 20, it sounds easy enough to interpret literally, but on a second look, it has chains, a pit and a key. Are these literal objects to bind a spiritual being like satan? Or are they "literal" (i.e. real) in some other sense? For instance, Jesus is not a literal "door", but He is the literal "way" into the Kingdom of God. And, for that matter, is the Kingdom of God a literal thing? Or is it just a representation of the Lord Jesus' authority over all things? I know much to-do is made over taking the Bible literally, but really, we Christians aren't very good at that. There is much symbolism even in the simple things Jesus says. And we seem to almost follow along with this kind of symbolism in Jesus' speech about spiritual realities, except when it comes to prophecy like the book of Revelation. Let me give you a simple case in point. This seems easy enough: Quote: Revelation 1 1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 ¶ Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. What does "shortly take place" and "time is near" mean? If this was in any other context other than the book of Revelation, almost everyone would agree that this means literally what it says. In other words, if it wasn't in the book of Revelation, everybody would interpret it as meaning that the things mentioned in the book following this statement were soon to happen in the context of the original author and original audience. But because it is in a prophetic book, and there are other fish to fry, the straightforward interpretation is not accepted, and instead it is said to be "God's Time" thus making "shortly take place" and "time is near" literally mean the exact opposite! (i.e. thousands of years). Personally, that kind of stuff bothers me. So I often say to those who ask about the 1000 years of Revelation, "If you can get me past the first 3 verses, I'd love to talk to you about it." LOL! Me? Well, my view of prophecy and the 1000 years is a bit unusual. However, Jesus is Lord! Amen? He is the One and Only Savior. And there is nowhere in the Bible that Jesus is said to rule only 1000 years except in a highly symbolic book of Revelation. Everywhere else in the scripture, and even in the Old Testament, Jesus is to rule forever. Things to think about. What say ye? :) Jesus, kill me with your compassion. Check out my healing journal.
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1 user thanked QuantumGreg for this useful post.		katabillups on 8/29/2010
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Andy_uk		#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 19, 2010 1:57:09 AM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 10/19/2009 Posts: 246 Location: Gloucester UK Thanks: 170 times Was thanked: 181 time(s) in 122 post(s)		Thanks Quantum Greg - I really have no definite views - they are subject to change ! I'm going through the Chuck Missler series on Revelation at the moment, which has been really interesting and given me a load of insight I didn't have before. There is some very detailed work gone into that series. There are a whole stack of prophesy that has to be fulfilled - the Jews were expecting this to be achieved when Jesus was first on the earth. For this reason I'm tending to believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Jesus, with demons and satan removed. Then satan let loose again for a brief period, God destroying him and then a new heaven and new earth. I've also been looking at the case for an Islamic anti-Christ, which seems to fit quite well, and a pretrib rapture. I have no idea if all these doctrines are correct though ! Many of them seem to me on the face of it as being 'grey' areas, in that I think we don't have enough scripture to be absolutely sure of the timing. Perhaps its deliberate to keep satan guessing, and we'll be given more detail nearer the time. Certainly this was what happened with some of the events surrounding the Jews returning from Russia (Steve Lightle's Exodus book being an example where a whole load of Christians were independently given prophesy to make ready facilities for Jewish emigrants years before the fall of communism). The clearer I can see Jesus, the more confident I get.
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QuantumGreg		#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:47:55 PM
Rank: Administration Medals: Joined: 4/13/2009 Posts: 678 Location: Bluff City, TN Thanks: 64 times Was thanked: 322 time(s) in 180 post(s)		Andy_uk wrote: ...in that I think we don't have enough scripture to be absolutely sure of the timing... Interesting you should say that. Here are some scriptures regarding timing that I grouped together when studying this. These seriously bothered me. Hang on to your hat!!! Mathew 10:23; 16:27-28; 24:34 Mark 8:38-9:1; 13:29-31 Luke 9:26-27; 21:20-22,31,32 John 21:21-23 Acts 2:17-21 Romans 13:11-12; 16:20 1 Corinthians 7:26-31; 10:11 Philippians 4:5 Hebrews 1:2; 9:26-28; 10:37-38 James 5:7-9 1 Peter 4:5-7,17 1 John 2:8,17-18 Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-7,10,12,20 Pretty wild when you put them all in one pile and read them, isn't it? Jesus, kill me with your compassion. Check out my healing journal.
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1 user thanked QuantumGreg for this useful post.		Andy_uk on 1/20/2010
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Andy_uk		#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:58:11 PM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 10/19/2009 Posts: 246 Location: Gloucester UK Thanks: 170 times Was thanked: 181 time(s) in 122 post(s)		Thanks Greg, got some homework to do at the weekend ! The clearer I can see Jesus, the more confident I get.
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roger.sapp		#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:32:33 PM
Rank: Administration Medals: Joined: 4/2/2009 Posts: 573 Location: Springtown, Texas Thanks: 509 times Was thanked: 343 time(s) in 207 post(s)		QuantumGreg wrote: Andy_uk wrote: ...in that I think we don't have enough scripture to be absolutely sure of the timing... Interesting you should say that. Here are some scriptures regarding timing that I grouped together when studying this. These seriously bothered me. Hang on to your hat!!! Mathew 10:23; 16:27-28; 24:34 Mark 8:38-9:1; 13:29-31 Luke 9:26-27; 21:20-22,31,32 John 21:21-23 Acts 2:17-21 Romans 13:11-12; 16:20 1 Corinthians 7:26-31; 10:11 Philippians 4:5 Hebrews 1:2; 9:26-28; 10:37-38 James 5:7-9 1 Peter 4:5-7,17 1 John 2:8,17-18 Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-7,10,12,20 Pretty wild when you put them all in one pile and read them, isn't it? I'd have to agree. The more I studied this topic and studied the Bible, the less convinced I became that anyone really knows how these events are going to come together. Drawing a lesson from the first coming of Christ, no one seemed to be able to put it all together until it was actually happening and of course afterwards. For instance, one Messianic prophecy said that Christ would be a Nazerene, one said "Out of Egypt I have called My Son." and another pointed out Bethlehem as the place for the Christ to come from. No one would have been able to figure out in advance how these things fit together and how Jesus would fulfill all three. The same is true for the restoration of Israel as a nation to the land of Palestine. No one was predicting this to happen before it did. After the seriously unusual series of events during World War II and thereafter, then some discovered it was prophesied in Scripture. Why didn't they see it before? No one could conceive of how this might happen so they regulated it to the past rather than the future. Therefore, I think that unfulfilled prophecy has the function of being a guidepost that things are happening according to God's plan. For those who are paying attention, they confirm that the Scriptures are true and that the Lamb has the Book of the ages in His hands opening it seal by seal. Blessings, Roger If you like Roger's post, hit the "Thanks" button at the top right corner of the post. In Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Colossians 2:3 Join my email update list:http://www.allnationsmin.org/signupform.html We send out two or three emails a month to update on healing and prophetic meetings. Become my Facebook friend, http://www.facebook.com/...er-S@pp/100000348887732 See video of Jesus Christ healing the injured on stage as Roger ministers to them: www.youtube.com/DrRogerS@pp[/color] Many of my writings, audio and video messages are available for free download at the All Nations Ministries & Publications secure website: http://www.allnationsmin.org/downloads.aspx This website also has many printed books, packaged CDs, DVDs & Healing Meditation Card Decks and other items available for order as well. www.allnationsmin.org
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2 users thanked roger.sapp for this useful post.		Andy_uk on 1/22/2010, katabillups on 8/29/2010
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QuantumGreg		#7 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 7:51:19 AM
Rank: Administration Medals: Joined: 4/13/2009 Posts: 678 Location: Bluff City, TN Thanks: 64 times Was thanked: 322 time(s) in 180 post(s)		Thought I might just print out the above scriptures to save one from having to look them up. They really are fascinating: Quote: Matthew 10 23 "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Matthew 16 27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 24 34 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Mark 8 38 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels." 1 ¶ And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power." Mark 13 29 "So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors! 30 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Luke 9 26 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. 27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God." Luke 21 20 ¶ "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 31 "So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. John 21 21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?" Acts 2 17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.’ Romans 13 11 ¶ And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Romans 16 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. 1 Corinthians 7 26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you. 29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away. 1 Corinthians 10 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Philippians 4 5 Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand. Hebrews 1 1 ¶ God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Hebrews 9 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 10 37 "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." James 5 7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! 1 Peter 4 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 7 ¶ But the end of all things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers. 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 John 2 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. 18 ¶ Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. Revelation 1 1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 ¶ Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 22 6 ¶ Then he said to me, "These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. 7 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book." 10 And he said to me, "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 20 ¶ He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! Being as honest as I know how, and a student of the Bible, it appears from reading the above that the New Testament writers paint an imminent picture of the soon coming of Jesus Christ from their 1st-century AD viewpoint. I found myself struggling with what these time statements clearly say. If I were to take these statement literally, it is quite a frightening idea! But to make Greek words like "at hand", "near" and "last hour" mean thousands of years of time is also a frightening idea! So, to me, these are the most challenging parts of prophecy because these are God's Words... and I don't want to change their meaning or misunderstand them. If anything, studying these passages in particular makes me VERY SKEPTICAL with the so-called "prophecy experts" of our day. There is one thing that all the "prophecy experts" have in common... they've all been 100% wrong in their predictions and people keep buying their books!!!! Amazing, and puzzling. Anyway... I've vented... hahaha... Jesus is Lord! Jesus, kill me with your compassion. Check out my healing journal.
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jimman		#8 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 8:29:04 AM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 7/10/2009 Posts: 103 Location: Ct Thanks: 50 times Was thanked: 50 time(s) in 39 post(s)		I agree Greg. Everyone is talking the last days. They haven't been right yet.
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Andy_uk		#9 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 3:30:45 PM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 10/19/2009 Posts: 246 Location: Gloucester UK Thanks: 170 times Was thanked: 181 time(s) in 122 post(s)		What has changed is that Israel is back in the land. There have been so many supernatural things that have happened to achieve this. The clock is ticking... The clearer I can see Jesus, the more confident I get.
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QuantumGreg		#10 Posted : Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:09:04 PM
Rank: Administration Medals: Joined: 4/13/2009 Posts: 678 Location: Bluff City, TN Thanks: 64 times Was thanked: 322 time(s) in 180 post(s)		Andy_uk wrote: What has changed is that Israel is back in the land. There have been so many supernatural things that have happened to achieve this. The clock is ticking... Well, Andy_uk, I have a problem with that. I've heard it over and over that 1948 was a miraculous fulfillment of prophecy. What prophecy? Again, just being honest, not dogmatic, and not personal. I've spent years studying this stuff; not that that adds any merit to it, just that I have searched pretty hard for that prophecy. Where is there a NT promise of Israel regathering to the land? There is not one. None of the NT writers and even Jesus Himself ever say anything like it. Jesus did say the Temple was going down, which it did in AD 70. He never predicted it would be rebuilt, and neither did any other NT writer. Thus, I find that every single OT promise regarding the regathering of Israel to their land has the following 2 characteristics: (1) All were made before they regathered to the land from Babylonian captivity in 538 BC. (2) All were conditional on Israel's repentance toward God. Concerning (1) above: Regathering Scriptures - Joel 3:17-21 - Prophesied approx 800 BC. - Amos 9:11-15 - Prophesied approx 790 BC. - Isaiah 11:11-12; 14:1-3; 27:12-13; 43:1-8; 49:8-16; 66:20-22 - Prophesied approx 750 BC. Notice the ancient names of the countries (e.g. Assyria). - Hosea 1:10-11 - Prophesied approx 750 BC. - Micah 4:4-7 - Prophesied approx 750 BC. - Jeremiah 16:14-16; 23:3-8; 30:10-11; 31:8,31-37 - Prophesied approx 600 BC. - Zephaniah 3:14-20 - Prophesied approx 640 BC. - Ezekiel 11:17-21; 20:33-38; 34:11-16; 39:25-29 - Prophesied approx 580 BC. - Zechariah 8:4-8 - Prophesied approx 520 BC. Thus, no regathering-to-the-land promises have been made since the above time periods. There are no NT promises like this to fleshly Israel either. So what prophecy is 1948 supposed to have fulfilled? And according to all the prophecy experts, the generation that sees the regathering to the land (the supposed "budding of the fig tree") would be the last generation (Matthew 24:34). Well it has been 62 years since then (i.e. more than a generation). In scripture, a generation is thought of to only be 40 years (like the "generation" that died in the 40-year wilderness wandering). So, then the prophecy experts move it up to 1967... it has been 43 years since then. Now what? Concerning (2) above, simply read Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. Both staying in the land and regathering to the land are based on repentance toward God. Surely we cannot come to the conclusion that Israel, as a nation, turned back to God in 1948 or 1967 or even now. Modern Judaism denies Jesus as Messiah. And if God's land promises were based on conditional repentance of Israel, and they didn't repent in 1948 or 1967, then how can we think God was the One Who brought them back to their land as a fulfillment of prophecy? So, personally, I don't think 1948 or 1967 is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Just my humble opinion. Jesus, kill me with your compassion. Check out my healing journal.
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1 user thanked QuantumGreg for this useful post.		katabillups on 4/18/2010
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Andy_uk		#11 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 7:02:05 AM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 10/19/2009 Posts: 246 Location: Gloucester UK Thanks: 170 times Was thanked: 181 time(s) in 122 post(s)		Hi Greg, Some of the prophecies mention that they would be regathered from far off lands. This would not mean the Babylonian exile. At no time before AD70 were the Jews scattered to the four corners of the earth. This is why I believe that these prophecies do relate to the present return of Israel to the land. Isaiah 11:11-12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the isles of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Jeremiah 46: 27-28 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid. Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations where I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished. Ezekial 11:16-17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the nations, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come. Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. I read a book in the '80's by Steve Lightle called Exodus II. This for me nailed it that it was a prophetic return because of the way God prepared the way for Russian Jews to return to the land. This book was printed well before the fall of communism, and tells of how different groups of Christians were told to get provisions, bibles and resting places ready for Jews who would be brought out of the USSR. At the time this looked absolute madness. The number of visas which had always been a trickle at best had almost stopped completely. He had a literal vision with an angelic encounter many years before this took place. I can remember reading this book at the height of the cold war and thinking - either this guy is nuts, or its of God ! However the visions he had been given including some of the above prophecies came to pass. Many Jews who left the USSR were amazed that Christians were expecting this turn around, and had already got so many things in place for their return. Due to the love that was shown to them, many became Christians. The book is well worth a read if you can find a copy. The clearer I can see Jesus, the more confident I get.
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1 user thanked Andy_uk for this useful post.		katabillups on 4/18/2010
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katabillups		#12 Posted : Thursday, March 25, 2010 1:16:57 PM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 3/9/2010 Posts: 293 Location: Colorado Thanks: 916 times Was thanked: 166 time(s) in 123 post(s)		about timing... wasn't the period of time between the sufferings of Christ and the Glory a mystery? (something hidden by God) New International Version (©1984) trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. the mystery 1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. and didn't Jesus know his mission to be to the lost sheep of Israel (until I His Father (I guess) ... further revealed the whole plan?) This next part copied off the internet; The fact that Jesus was specifically sent to Israel, is further confirmed when one views, how He responded to a request for mercy, from a Canaan women. And in addition note, what He commanded His apostles to do. Matthew (15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew (10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ISRAEL, A LOST SHEEP The prophets had foretold the fact, that Jesus was to come to the house of Israel, and also become a light to the Gentiles. Hello! THE TITLE OF THIS PIECE IS JESUS came to sup with us AND BROUGHT MY CAT A BAG OF FOOD. I am an artist (a painter) and my husband is a great husband and business man. We have get to share Dr. Roger S@pp's HEALING message at a small group very Weds. eve. We are all seeing The Lord do fantastic healings in the midst of us. My art work is fairly diverse but I believe THE LORD has given me two specific bodies of work to create. NUMBER ONE: I paint the Rock and Roll Icons of the 60's and 70's in humorous situations that poke playful fun at their idol status. I will not give my web site in this forum, because some people will not understand my message or method. For you art savvy people I will say there are hints of Goya and other artists: social COMMENTATORS. I highly recommend the film GOYA'S GHOST. His work condemned the heinous works within the Catholic church during his time. If you want to see my work, (AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION!) google my name. k@ta bi11ups. Quite a few of famous actors and musicians and film makers collect this body of work. My favorite is Susan Sarandon because she stated in a magazine article that her greatest hero was Jesus Christ. GO Susan! NUMBER TWO: My Masters Thesis work is entitled The Case for an Emotional Jesus in Painting. Most artists for over 2,000 years have concentrated on the Divinity of Christ but not his humanity. This body of work is ALSO considered highly controversial by SOME. The work emphasizes His emotions as He reacts to and interacts with contemporary American culture. This is not Biblical Illustration, but a new way of painting Christ for our time. If you have a "beef" with how I paint Christ, or any other subject matter please contact me directly and I may be able to shed some light on my mission and the historical precedent for work like mine. Thanks! K@ta
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skydove		#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 2:44:54 PM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 4/27/2009 Posts: 397 Location: Oregon Thanks: 227 times Was thanked: 180 time(s) in 141 post(s)		Do any of you have a "Companion Bible"? Ever heard Pastor Arnold Murrey talk about end times? He has an interesting take. As far as, who will be ruled over in the millinium...I have my own take on it. Ever wonder about all the babies that have been aborted & people who died young, etc.? It seems that everyone in this life must be tested as all heaven was tested bc of Satan. So, all these people that have never been fully tested, maybe even all the Christians who did not "overcome" will have to be tested. Thus, the millium reign. Satan is kept in chains until these people are taught all they need to be tested [bc it says the overcomers are free from the second death so others are not] then he is released to see who these people will serve & follow, God or satan just like before when satan deceived angels! If angels can be deceived...then that makes you think! Heaven wouldn't be heaven if there was ANY chance of a revolt again or evil cropping up again so God has to test everyone to be sure that no evil will exist again. Pastor Murray gives a scripture for the Jews becoming a nation in 1948 [it was a supernatural event!] but I can't remember. I still need healing for my brain function [clarity, concentration & memmory]. I'm HOPING for a "rapture" [P. Murray has a book on that -doesn't beleive it -forget name of book -sorry] but I don't think so. I think if the church is to be Christ-like then that's probably going to require some sacrafice for others. I like that scripture tho' that talks about the church of Philidelphia that they will escape the hour of wrath. So, there's some hope! ha ha If you are apart of that group. I've heard some say that each church is a time period? Anyhow, like was said, I don't think we will really know until it happens. Don't forget about the 2 witnesses tho' that come on the scene before the Anti-Christ. Now if they show up, then we KNOW where we are, altho' I'm sure there will be some who doubt they are the 2 witnesses! OVEY! God loves you because of who He is, not because of anything you did or didn't do. God is GOOD.
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1 user thanked skydove for this useful post.		katabillups on 4/14/2010
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QuantumGreg		#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:33:58 PM
Rank: Administration Medals: Joined: 4/13/2009 Posts: 678 Location: Bluff City, TN Thanks: 64 times Was thanked: 322 time(s) in 180 post(s)		K@tabi11ups wrote: ...The fact that Jesus was specifically sent to Israel, is further confirmed when one views, how He responded to a request for mercy, from a Canaan women. And in addition note, what He commanded His apostles to do... Yes, and the interesting part is that when the Holy Spirit came in Acts 2, the gospel was just preached to Jews. Even at that point, the apostles did not yet understand the gospel was to all people. It took the Spirit sending Philip to Samria (Acts 8), the conversion of Saul, the apostle to the uncircumcised (Acts 9), and the Spirit sending Peter, the apostle to the circumcision, to Cornelius' household (Acts 10), to get the ball rolling toward all mankind. The matter was not even settled and properly understood until Acts 15 when the Jerusalem council decided the Gentiles did not have to keep the Law. Further, if you will understand that the Kingdom of God was divided after Solomon into what the Bible calls Israel (10 northern tribes) and Judah (2 southern tribes) (1 Kings 11). At that point Solomon's son Rehoboam became king of Judah, and Jeroboam (Solomon's servant) becamse king of Israel. From this point in Biblical history, it becomes VERY important to distinguish Israel from Judah in prophecy. Because the prophets start to distinguish them (e.g. Hosea 1:10-3:5). Israel had all bad kings from many different dynasties and was scattered among the nations by the kingdom of Assyria when they refused to repent at the preaching of the prophets (2 Kings 17). Captives from Israel were taken to Assyria, and Assyrians were taken to Israel, and the scattering began... big time. Israel was scattered to the four corners of the land while the kingdom of Judah continued. But finally, the kingdom of Judah also was done away by Nebuchadnezzar and the armies of Babylon (2 Kings 25). When Judah was regathered from Babylon and back to their land to rebuild the Temple of God in Jerusalem, they did not allow the mixed race of Israelites/Gentiles to help them. This is where the division and hatred started between them that we see in Jesus' days. It is the very reason the Jews (Judah) didn't have anything to do with the Samaritans (scattered mixed race of Israel & Gentiles). But during the scattering of Israel to the nations and the captivity of Judah into Babylon, God prophesied through the prophet Ezekiel to regather his people both from all nations and Babylon, and give them One Shepherd. That One Shepherd was Jesus. It was prophesied that this One Shepherd would unite Israel & Judah into One Kingdom again. Ezekiel gives that prophecy in the form of writing on two sticks... one is Judah and one is Israel... and then joining them together and making one stick out of them (Ezekiel 37, the whole chapter). I believe, therefore, this is why Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (not Judah). If you notice Jesus went preaching in all the other provinces of the Roman Empire but spent VERY LITTLE time in the province of Judea. He only went there for feasts in Jerusalem and, of course, to die. The rest of the time He was gathering the "lost sheep of the house of Israel"... the very ones the Jews (Judah) didn't like. The Jews were the ones "near" and Israel were the ones "far off." In fact, I believe the parable of the Prodigal Son exemplifies this perfectly. The wayward son is the kingdom of Israel. The son that remain near and was jealous was the kingdom of Judah. Jesus, kill me with your compassion. Check out my healing journal.
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3 users thanked QuantumGreg for this useful post.		skydove on 4/14/2010, katabillups on 4/14/2010, Andy_uk on 4/15/2010
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Andy_uk		#15 Posted : Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:53:06 AM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 10/19/2009 Posts: 246 Location: Gloucester UK Thanks: 170 times Was thanked: 181 time(s) in 122 post(s)		Roger wrote : "No one was predicting this to happen before it did. After the seriously unusual series of events during World War II and thereafter, then some discovered it was prophesied in Scripture. Why didn't they see it before? " Actually many Pentecostal Christians in the UK were predicting this decades before it happened. Possibly it wasn't so in the states ? Could this have been because of the UK's role in the region during the British mandate ? God's dealings have been fairly low profile from what I've seen. Only a smallish number of prophets, and organisations being involved. My family had their roots in the Bible college of Wales, and they believed Israel was to be reformed to fulfil prophesy many decades before it happened. In fact my grandfather used to joke that he was ridiculed by his workmates for suggesting the Bible was predicting a Jewish state (this was well before WWII). The Bible College of Wales spent many evenings in prayer for the return of Israel during WWII, as they felt called to do so. I recommend Steve Lightle's book Exodus II as a good read. The accuracy of the predictions blew me away. I believe God has been at work behind the scenes to get the Jews back in the land. I simply can't explain away what I've seen prophesied and accurately fulfilled. http://www.amazon.com/Ex...My-People/dp/0917726561 Hope this is of interest Best wishes Andy The clearer I can see Jesus, the more confident I get.
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2 users thanked Andy_uk for this useful post.		katabillups on 4/18/2010, skydove on 4/21/2010
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katabillups		#16 Posted : Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:47:48 PM
Rank: Honored Member Medals: Joined: 3/9/2010 Posts: 293 Location: Colorado Thanks: 916 times Was thanked: 166 time(s) in 123 post(s)		I gotta study this more...but Greg, Dr. S@pp and ALL--- since Christ's ORIGINAL mission was to the lost sheep of Israel, but that mission was changed when His own rejected him for the most part (and we- the Gentlies were grafted in) won't His 1,000 year reign be with Him as the King, having the King's portion of the promised land, and the 12 tribes having theirs, and all the promises that were made to Moses and all will be fulfilled during that reign? I think coinfusion comes in when we call ourselves His Bride. I thought Israel was the bride and we are the church administration. His bride (Israel will have all the promises that were made to them during their administration fulfilled during His 1,000 year reign) and we will have the better promises....in that we will not have to participate in the sacrifices and all...but the bride WILL during that 1,000 year reign. what do you think? Hello! THE TITLE OF THIS PIECE IS JESUS came to sup with us AND BROUGHT MY CAT A BAG OF FOOD. I am an artist (a painter) and my husband is a great husband and business man. We have get to share Dr. Roger S@pp's HEALING message at a small group very Weds. eve. We are all seeing The Lord do fantastic healings in the midst of us. My art work is fairly diverse but I believe THE LORD has given me two specific bodies of work to create. NUMBER ONE: I paint the Rock and Roll Icons of the 60's and 70's in humorous situations that poke playful fun at their idol status. I will not give my web site in this forum, because some people will not understand my message or method. For you art savvy people I will say there are hints of Goya and other artists: social COMMENTATORS. I highly recommend the film GOYA'S GHOST. His work condemned the heinous works within the Catholic church during his time. If you want to see my work, (AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION!) google my name. k@ta bi11ups. Quite a few of famous actors and musicians and film makers collect this body of work. My favorite is Susan Sarandon because she stated in a magazine article that her greatest hero was Jesus Christ. GO Susan! NUMBER TWO: My Masters Thesis work is entitled The Case for an Emotional Jesus in Painting. Most artists for over 2,000 years have concentrated on the Divinity of Christ but not his humanity. This body of work is ALSO considered highly controversial by SOME. The work emphasizes His emotions as He reacts to and interacts with contemporary American culture. This is not Biblical Illustration, but a new way of painting Christ for our time. If you have a "beef" with how I paint Christ, or any other subject matter please contact me directly and I may be able to shed some light on my mission and the historical precedent for work like mine. Thanks! K@ta
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freedom		#17 Posted : Monday, August 30, 2010 6:59:22 PM
Rank: Member Medals: Joined: 8/20/2010 Posts: 18 Location: TX Thanks: 0 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Has anyone listened to Kris Vallotton's messages on eschatology? I really like his take on it. Very hope-filled.
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1 user thanked freedom for this useful post.		katabillups on 8/31/2010
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